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The author is right in what she’s talking about — gender bias does exist in a portion of the population and some of those people are readers. But writers have to write what matters to them and create the characters that fit their stories. So, no, we shouldn’t worry about whether our female characters fit some kind, gentle, or whatever model.
As to why men don’t write about this. Gender politics are a very complicated issue and I don’t think I can even scratch the surface of it in a post here.
Personally, I had a lot of issues with female characters for years. Why? Because I was worrying about what other people would think of my characters, trying to make women that would fit all readers’ preferences. It’s impossible. A few years ago I decided that all I cared about is whether I like my characters, and I have been a lot happier.
–June
Sometimes I do, but if I’m skipping it’s a warning sign that the book is losing me.
I have overall enjoyed books where I started skipping, but often, if I start skipping stuff, I don’t finish the book.
–June
I also think this comes from the number of bad prologues out there. I’ve read several that I wish I’d skipped. One, in a Romance, told me all the secrets about the hero. I still enjoyed the book, but feel I would have enjoyed it so much more if the author had allowed me to learn these secrets WITH the heroine rather than giving me the information in the first pages.
Other time, often in fantasy novels, the prologue is used to explain all the world-building. These are often rather static and, frankly, boring. Again, it’s fun to discover the world as the story unfolds rather than all up front as if in a text book.
I think this is the main danger with a prologue — it can give away too much of the story. Stories are best when they unfold through the action. As a reader, I want to experience the story, not have it explained in some info-dump at the beginning.
But all these bad prologues doesn’t mean that prologues that avoid these pit-falls can’t be good. It’s like so much in writing. When done well, they’re great. When done poorly, it’s … well, bad.
My personal treatment of prologues is that I DO skip them when reading. I cut to the place marked ‘chapter 1’ and start reading. If I can follow the story, I save the prologue for reading at the END of the book. If I can’t follow the story starting in chapter 1, I go back and read the prologue.
This way, my experience isn’t spoiled by a prologue that might well give away more than I want at the beginning.
–June
I like documentaries. Not so much for the ‘talking’, because half the time that’s wrong. I watch for the scenery, the people, the overall ‘look in motion’ of different places.
–June
I would, as you did, make a decision in the moment. Maybe I would write a place holder if I had some idea of where I thought I wanted the ending to go — something I could fix later. Or, if I felt that I really had no idea what I wanted to do with those last (let’s see, for me 1/2 hour of writing — about 300 words) I would wait. For me, there wouldn’t be one answer for every story. It would vary in the moment.
If I could, I would probably prefer to have a ‘rough’ ending than have left it hanging. So, if I could do what you did, I would.
–June
Like almost everything in my writing, I know ‘how much’ by feel. When I feel ready to write, I usually am. But how much research varies wildly book to book.
–June
I wanted to answer ‘as little as possible’. Seriously, I hate research.
Obviously, though, I have to do some. Usually, I try to do what I call ‘general research’ more than specific research. What I mean is that there are usually a few subjects that are integral to the story I’m writing on. (Example, in Ev’s book, the French Revolution and Russian mythology). I just read about these subjects — books, articles — and watch documentaries, just pretty much whatever I can find. Often, I don’t have to do much of this because I try to choose subjects that I already know a lot about.
I don’t make notes on this because it’s not about details and facts. It’s about the overall ‘sense’ of the subject.
When I do have to keep notes, I use OneNote because I can just toss information onto the page without worrying about ordering it. I don’t really like order.
And that’s about it. I really try to invent rather than research every chance I get.
–June
I agree on the ‘you have to understand it’. Maybe you could teach something you don’t use, by really, why would you when you can teach something you personally believe in more?
That said, I think sometimes there is this idea that a writer can only do it one way. I don’t necessarily believe that. I’ve written to an outline. I’ve written to specific length. I’ve written very very fast (a full length novel in 15 days). And I’ve written quite slowly.
What I’ve learned from all that is when I write slowly and without a complete outline I get closer to the book I really WANT to write. The other methods get me books, and some of them weren’t bad, but I was never really satisfied with them.
So, I write very slowly, very deliberately, revise as I draft, and I never outline more than the next few scenes to be written at a time. It’s not that I can’t work another way. It’s that this way has proven most effective for me.
So, yeah, I might be able to teach outlining, but I probably wouldn’t since I couldn’t really put my heart into it. I suspect someone for whom outlining worked so much better would feel the same even if they did understand ‘pantsing’.
–June
“Your first drafts must be such a mess. How can you fix them?”
Actually, my first drafts aren’t THAT messy. They usually hold together pretty well, and I can usually complete a second draft of a novel in less than a month.
I too get the ‘how many books have you written?’ in put-down form. But, I sort of enjoy that since I will then get a stunned response when I answer. LOL
I don’t generally mind these conversations until they get to the point where someone is trying to convince me that doing an outline will make things so much better for me. No, actually, it won’t. As long as no one pulls that out, I actually enjoy discussing the differences between our ways of writing. Outliners, clearly, approach story in a totally different way from me, and learning about that is interesting.
–June
Well, I’m willing to try to work harder to get discussions to the level I would like to see. I’ll give it a shot. Maybe we can discuss how well it’s working later.
–June
So, how do we promote positive discussion?
Is there some way the boards could be labeled to suggest that deeper discussion is encouraged ‘here’? Perhaps if some of the boards were designated in such a way people who want deep discussion would gravitate there and those who find analysis damaging to their process would know to enter with caution.
–June
It seems difficult to get a real discussion going on any topic. People readily answer specific questions/problems (which is great) but any in-depth discussion seems to die after a post or two, often with the pronouncement that everyone has their own way (true, but that doesn’t stop us from discussing different ways, does it?)
Maybe this is just my perception, but it seems that actual discussion of a topic is viewed too quickly as argument and cut off by mutual consent. Is there some way to avoid this?
–June
Perhaps not specifically for pantsers, but an area where the focus was on personal methodology. The structure and technique sections seem to be used for presenting professional methods, which is great, but I wonder if people don’t feel so comfortable talking about their own methodology there.
–June
Tacking this on NPhoenix’s post only because it’s the last in the list, not directly to her.
For me, as with so much in writing, this is a balancing act. On one hand, I need to be sure that the story I’m telling is one I can care about — that’s ‘for me’. But, I do want to communicate, so on that side I’m trying to write for readers too.
Some of this, I think, comes from a larger experience in the writing world. There are people (not saying here) who will tell you that you MUST write something for ‘the market’, that it must be chasing some sort of trend or what’s hot, and that this is ‘for readers’. These are the folks who say that you shouldn’t worry about what you like in a story, only about what’s selling.
I could never be one of those people. I have to care about the story I’m writing.
But, otoh, I don’t want to write only for ‘me’. I don’t want to write and then put the story in a drawer. I want people to read it. How to make that happen is something I have to work on. And working on it is a good thing, but only if I can do so without taking the story to a place where it no longer matters to me.
So, for me, balancing is the goal.
–June
Speaking strictly as a writer here, not as a reader, one thing I love about what I’m writing now is that I can go in not knowing if the characters will have any sort of romantic relationships or not. If one develops, fine. If not, also fine. Same with sex. If that’s where the story goes, I’m not opposed to writing a sex scene, but I’m not obligated to.
Further, if there are romantic relationships, I don’t feel that I must end them happily with the characters committed for life (or at least the foreseeable future). They might be happy going their separate ways. Or they might be unhappy in any number of romantic ways at the end.
When I was reading Romance I definitely wanted that happy together ending, so I understand that desire. But, as a writer, I feel boxed in by it these days. So, I like being free of the requirement.
–June
