Two types of writers

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  • #198905
    zette
    Moderator
      126 Pirate Gold Coins

      I have come to believe that there are two types of writers. This isn’t about linear or non-linear, about outlines or not outlines; it’s not even about genres.

      It’s whether you write a story that has a romance as an important part of the plot or not.

      I am not much of a romance writer at all. My stories often have a romance included, but the story is not centered on what happens in the relationship. I long ago grew tired of the ‘this is really a romance’ story clothed in some other genre. Take a book about an alien invasion, the end of civilization — but the novel is really about how long it takes the Fleet Admiral to get the pretty alien ambassador into his bed, and usually about what they do there.

      I am not against romance stories, even of these types. They’re just rarely interesting to me. I prefer to read space opera and I also believe that not every relationship has to be about sex.

      How about the rest of you? Romantic at heart, no matter what genre you write? Or will you focus more on other aspects of the story as the main plot?

      #208725
      Gilroy
      Participant
        6 Pirate Gold Coins

        I guess you can mark me as the knuckle dragging neanderthal male in this respect.

        Romance is not a huge part of my writing. If it happens to appear, great. If not, I’m not forcing the characters. I prefer the action, the actual adventure, rather than, as the Dead Ale Wivesclub so wonderfully put it:

        “If there are girls there, I want to Do them!”

        #208726
        jhmcmullen
        Participant
          0 Pirate Gold Coins

          Romance (as in hearts and flowers) is not a huge part of anything I write, but I am slowly coming to a theory. My theory is sketchy and underdeveloped, so I figured I’ll share it with you, because it actually is related to what zette said.

          My theory is that there are genres of setting and genres of effect. (My terms; if you find better ones, go for it.)

          A genre of setting, such as SF, fantasy, or steampunk (and probably others I haven’t thought of yet) define where it happens but not so much what happens.

          A genre of effect, however, really does have things that have to happen. In a romance, two entities really do have to fall in love, and that’s the main story. In a mystery, there really does have to be a problem solved. It is easy to combine a genre of effect and a genre of setting: you can have an SF romance or a steampunk mystery. It is also trivial (though possibly not commercial) to combine two genres of setting.

          Combining two genres of effect takes more effort. It can be done, but it’s kind of like BODMAS in arithmetic or braces in a C-descended programming language: they have to be closed off in the opposite order they were opened. (A romance mystery is either a romance first and then a mystery, in which case the mystery is resolved before the romance, or it’s a mystery first and a romance second, in which case the romance is resolved before figuring out whodunnit.)

          An epic has certain things happening at known locations, so the fact that epic fantasies are common doesn’t preclude epic space operas. (It’s harder to imagine an epic mystery.)

          This theory isn’t even up to being half-baked yet, so take it with an entire pig of salt.

          Great at theory, terrible at practice.

          #208745
          zette
          Moderator
            126 Pirate Gold Coins

            I like this! And yes, it makes sense. I especially like the BODMAS analogy.

            Would you consider developing this into an article for Vision? 500 to 2000 words. (grin)

            #208727
            Weird Jim
            Participant
              0 Pirate Gold Coins

              I wonder if best sellers are mostly one or the other.

              #208751
              zette
              Moderator
                126 Pirate Gold Coins

                Someone could make a study, but they’d actually have to read the best sellers. (Shudder)

                #208746
                astropolis
                Participant
                  0 Pirate Gold Coins

                  I think I’d go along with that, but with one addition. If the genre is some form of epic adventure there’s usually a character who sacrifices themselves for the sake of the others and either just avoids death, or comes back.

                  In Narnia it’s Aslan, in Star Wars it’s Obi-Wan, in LOTR Gandalf, and in the first Harry Potter it’s Hermione.

                  I first noticed this after I read an essay by CS Lewis in which he pointed out that most mythologies have somewhere a god who dies and rises.

                  Now for me the presence of the DRG character defines the epic adventure plot arc. The point here is that I’ve never met a romance with a DRG. I don’t know if it’s even possible, the sacrifice which gets the uncertainty of outcome, and hence the plot tension, going in a romance is the impossibility of the two characters ever getting together, which doesn’t sit well with the impossibility of one surviving.

                  #208756
                  ErinMH
                  Moderator
                    0 Pirate Gold Coins

                    The DRGs you cite, however, are not the MCs, so this usage does not preclude a romance plot or subplot for the MC.

                    Also, I would argue that Harry Potter as a series has a different DRG, and because each book has character arcs, there are several romance subplots, both successful and failed.

                    #208728
                    magicalbookworm
                    Participant
                      0 Pirate Gold Coins

                      Romance is never the first plot point in any of my novels, it always comes next to last if not last. It also tends to show up in the writing of novel vs writing the outline or plotting the novel, which i find kind of odd.

                      I think it could be interesting to see if romance as a major plot point plays a roll in a novel being a bestseller.

                      #208729
                      Linda Adams
                      Participant
                        0 Pirate Gold Coins

                        Romance is not in anything I write. It just doesn’t fit the kind of stories I’m writing.

                        #208730
                        Becky Black
                        Participant
                          0 Pirate Gold Coins

                          Well I’m actually a romance writer, so it’s obvious which type I am. B) But I came to romance reading and writing quite late and I don’t do hearts and flowers. To be honest the theme that seems to run through many of my romances is that love screws up your life royally – though it gives you something worth it in return. I’ve even said before that the most interesting bits of “courtship” I like to write about are the awkwardness, insecurity, saying the wrong thing, misunderstandings, arguments and toe-curling embarrassment parts. If course I’m writing m/m (gay) romance, so while of course it follows the conventions of the genre, that is, has a happy ending, the relationships themselves are more unconventional than the traditional romance.

                          I definitely also like to write about other types of relationships, but maybe romance is so popular in fiction, because it sort of raises the stakes in a relationship. Also, in some books it can seem odd when nobody in the story at all seems to be a sexual being at all. Love and sex are important parts of life. They drive people to all kinds of daft behaviour. To have them apparently completely absent in a situation in a story where you’d think there’d be at least something going on the background can seem unrealistic.

                          #208802
                          Linda Adams
                          Participant
                            0 Pirate Gold Coins

                            But in some cases, it can get in the way of the story. I read a thriller than had a romance element in it. The thriller was about a search for lost treasure and the bad guys were actively trying to kill the female protagonist. The romance interrupted the main storyline, rather than adding to it, and I finally gave up on the book in frustration. I wanted to scream at the characters, “Romance later! Bad guys are trying to kill you! Have priorities!”

                            It just seems like some books do it because romances are trendy and popular, rather than because of a need in the story.

                            #208804
                            zette
                            Moderator
                              126 Pirate Gold Coins

                              Yes! That’s it exactly. Oh, and the stories where the romance (or more often just the sex) gets thrown into the plot often and at the wrong time. Eventually you start thinking You know, you two are really stupid. You deserve to die. And then you start thinking the bad guys have to be pretty stupid, too, if they haven’t caught them yet. At that point, you can hardly care who wins.

                              #208731
                              Seleane_Gray
                              Participant
                                0 Pirate Gold Coins

                                First, wow. There are a lot of viewpoints in this thread. Some I agree with, some went over my head but it could very well be blamed on the headache.

                                For me in regards to the topic, it depends on the story. I think developing story is organic in nature, it starts as a seed of an idea and as we take in information from the world, shows we watch, art, books we read and whatever else it grows into a beautiful plant. And for me this is true with romance in my novel or not.

                                Do I like reading it? Sure. I don’t do erotic and the like but a true romance, love it. Especially when the writer does it well. But I don’t read Romance genre books. I hate them. There are two outcomes and why take the time to figure out which one the book plays out? The MCs either get together or tragically, they don’t. Now I’m not bashing classics like Romeo & Juliet, that is a romance done well even if it is a sad ending and makes you want to scream at the families for getting in the way of love.

                                In my writing though it really depends on the story my characters give me. There is usually an element of romance, I.E. the FMC has a lover or the MMC pines for his classmate. But does that mean I HAVE to have it in every book as a main plotline? No. Some of my books grow from a romance idea like the premise for Twilight: A normal girl is pursued by two supernatural guys. But as I learn the story — thus the growing process I mentioned above — the story evolves and the romance, while prominent, may not necessarily be the MAIN plotline. I believe the stories were already played out by the characters, I just retell the memoir, the conduit for the story to meet the world. Like my current story, Tangled Roses, the story started out being inspired by a show I watched. A supernatural girl falls in love with her supernatural guard/bulter. As I’ve gotten to know the characters, the world and culture, and bits of the story as scenes flash before my eyes, the simple premise that I just stated has been expanded. The romance is there but there is an overlaying story that weaves through the romance.

                                I hope this all makes sense. :cheer:

                                #208871
                                Soren_Ringh
                                Participant
                                  0 Pirate Gold Coins

                                  What you say makes perfect sense. It’s all about the main plot and the accompanying subplot(s). The subplot can be about just about anything. Some may be romantic in nature, others may have an air of mystery to them, or a hint of the paranormal, or dip into horror. As Zette said, it’s not about the genre.

                                  It’s really about what ways a given author will decide to tell their story. Subplots, flashbacks, and fore shadowing are great tools, but as Linda has already pointed out, the story can suffer if these tools of the trade aren’t used properly. The rule I’ve come across to try to write by is that the subplot has to support the main plot and weave back into it at some point in the main plots pursuit of the story question. Otherwise a reader is left confused and begins warming up that throwing arm.

                                  It’s all a matter of individual preference as to what tools we use as well as the genre(s) we write in. That being said, I do think it’s a good idea to learn how the different genre’s are written and to experiment with writing them even if the work is never seen by any other eyes but the author. You just never know.

                                  I myself, like to include some kind of a romantic subplot. It’s just my opinion, but I believe that people in general like to have some kind of a love interest thing going on. Of course this isn’t a rule. There are stories that don’t need the romantic element, but I feel these are exceptions. Right now I’m hard pressed to come up with a best seller that doesn’t have romance in it.

                                  It’s what everybody yearns for at some time in their lives, if not all the time. It’s started wars and set the course of history. It must be important to us.

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